Fall Oaks in Yosemite: Transcript from Today's "Info Tech and Soc" Class on Harvard's Virtual Island, Online Alienation and Sociality Research

This is the transcript from a class I teach on Harvard's virtual island in Second Life on "Information Technology and Society."


Here's what somebody in my class wrote about World University and School, after this class: http://www.urgentevoke.com/profiles/blogs/act-scott-macleods-world

Thanks, Buffy :)




[11:00] Lemondrop Serendipity is Online
[11:00] go1984 Winsmore is Online
[11:00] Wibble Poplin is Online
[11:00] Dallas Trefoil is Online
[11:00] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:00] Connected
[11:01] You decline Friends Meeting, Sea Turtle Island (188, 21, 25) from A group member named Scot Jung.
[11:01] Kevin Menczel is Offline
[11:06] Aphilo Aarde: Welcome Sandhya!
[11:06] sandhya2 Patel: hi
[11:06] sandhya2 Patel: nice to see you
[11:06] Aphilo Aarde: Nice to see you, as well :)
[11:07] Aphilo Aarde: How are things going?
[11:07] sandhya2 Patel: very well thanks
[11:07] Aphilo Aarde: :) The sun here in California is shine-singing :)
[11:07] sandhya2 Patel: it is sunny here too
[11:08] sandhya2 Patel: a beautiful day
[11:08] Aphilo Aarde: I'm glad that winter seems distant
[11:08] Aphilo Aarde: Let's wait until 10 past
[11:08] sandhya2 Patel: yes very good
[11:10] Sybex Drachnyd is Online
[11:10] You decline Welcome to Info Tech & Soc from A group member named Aphilo Aarde.
[11:11] Aphilo Aarde: Hi Sybex
[11:11] Sybex Drachnyd: hi
[11:11] Aphilo Aarde: The weather is often nice in SL ... hope it's nice where you are
[11:12] Bon McLeod is Offline
[11:12] Aphilo Aarde: So last week we talked about both early Internet governance, and
[11:12] Aphilo Aarde: the cultures which gave rise to the internet
[11:12] Aphilo Aarde: which in order of importance were
[11:13] Aphilo Aarde: 1 Technomeritocratic
[11:13] Aphilo Aarde: 2 Hacker
[11:13] Aphilo Aarde: 3 Communitarian
[11:13] Wibble Poplin is Offline
[11:13] Aphilo Aarde: and 4 Entrepreneurial - leading to the diffusion of these technologies significantly in the 1990s
[11:13] Curious George is Online
[11:14] Aphilo Aarde: Now we'll begin to explore the uses of the Internet in Society
[11:14] Aphilo Aarde: especially in terms of virtual communities and how they emerged initially.
[11:15] Bon McLeod is Online
[11:15] Aphilo Aarde: There were a lot of myths about what these technologies were doing to society, just as they were emerging.
[11:15] Aphilo Aarde: And these information technologies were widely diffused in the mid 1990s.
[11:16] Aphilo Aarde: Hello Ms. Roussel
[11:16] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[11:16] Ju Roussel: Hello Clever Ladies and Gents!
[11:16] sandhya2 Patel: hi
[11:16] Aphilo Aarde: So the World Wide Web was commercialized in December 1994
[11:16] Sybex Drachnyd: hi ju
[11:17] Aphilo Aarde: And 1995 was the first year of widespread use of the internet communication
[11:17] Aphilo Aarde: The first survey at the end of 1995 showed 16 million users
[11:18] Aphilo Aarde: In the year 2000, the number of users was way over 400 million
[11:18] Curious George: Hi, are you in voice, or just text?
[11:18] Aphilo Aarde: And now there are around 2 billion users
[11:18] Ju Roussel: Curious George is here! WOW! Text.
[11:18] Aphilo Aarde: Hi Curious!
[11:19] Aphilo Aarde: Text only this course
[11:19] Aphilo Aarde: Not everyone has voice around the world
[11:19] Aphilo Aarde: Welcome
[11:19] Curious George: Ah, low bandwidth.....
[11:19] Aphilo Aarde: :) still
[11:20] Curious George: I guess that's the usual story of socialism: since some are poor, let us all be poor ;)
[11:20] Aphilo Aarde: In the U.S. in the year 2000
[11:20] Malburns Writer is Online
[11:20] JonathanE Cortes is Online
[11:21] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps ... but how new technologies disseminate vis-a-vis a world wide network for communication that's real time is interesting
[11:21] Aphilo Aarde: OLPC is perhaps the most proactive story
[11:21] Aphilo Aarde: So in the year 2000
[11:21] Aphilo Aarde: in the U.S., depending on how you counted it, between 42 and 48% of computer users were connecting
[11:22] Ju Roussel: Curious and I probably have first-hand experience with socialism...
[11:22] Aphilo Aarde: And now it's around 80%
[11:22] Aphilo Aarde: Many of these statistics
[11:22] Aphilo Aarde: are here
[11:22] Curious George: have fun, all
[11:22] Curious George is Offline
[11:22] Aphilo Aarde: at webnographers.org
[11:22] Aphilo Aarde: Hello Jonathan!
[11:23] Aphilo Aarde: http://webnographers.org/index.php?title=Papers#Statistics_about_the_Internet
[11:23] Aphilo Aarde: From 1995 and 16 million users, to 2000 with 400 million users is a huge transformation
[11:23] Aphilo Aarde: from small to mass
[11:24] Aphilo Aarde: and from 400 million users to 2 billion is equally as dramatic
[11:24] Aphilo Aarde: In the late 2000s,
[11:24] Aphilo Aarde: sorry, the late 1990s
[11:25] Sysku Mayo is Offline
[11:25] Aphilo Aarde: a UCLA study showed 90 million users in one day
[11:25] Aphilo Aarde: Can anyone guess how many users there are on any given day these days
[11:25] You decline TLE Newbie Park & Classrooms & B, Raziel (218, 176, 22) from A group member named aelwyn Fields.
[11:26] Sybex Drachnyd: a gozillion
[11:26] Sybex Drachnyd: lol
[11:26] Imper Fegte is Offline
[11:26] Aphilo Aarde: On average, today, according to the Pew Trust (Pew Center for Internet in American Life - a good research organization)
[11:27] Aphilo Aarde: there are about 40 million users, so less than the peak day 10 years ago which the UCLA study found
[11:27] Andromeda Mesmer is Online
[11:28] Aphilo Aarde: So the Internet usage jumped in just 5 years from a middle size medium of communication to a mass medium
[11:28] Aphilo Aarde: And it's a Many-to-Many commuication medium
[11:29] Aphilo Aarde: This is critical to understanding what makes the Internet unique.
[11:29] JonathanE Cortes: hi all sorry Im late
[11:29] Aphilo Aarde: (By contrast, the TV is a 1 to many communication medium, and the telephone is a 1-1 communication medium - mostly).
[11:30] Aphilo Aarde: Welcome Jonathan and Andromeda
[11:30] Aphilo Aarde: So the WWW is a many to many medium
[11:30] Aphilo Aarde: And it's Global and Chosen
[11:31] Aphilo Aarde: That is, it's world wide - in all of the about 200 countries and 20 territories
[11:32] Aphilo Aarde: and it's chosen in the sense that it's synchronous - in real time, so all of us can send/produce and get information when and as we want it
[11:33] Aphilo Aarde: and it's asynchronous - that is, all of the endpoints and nodes - us and the internet system - can work asynchronously - that is offline - sending and receiving information
[11:33] Aphilo Aarde: not in real time
[11:33] Eme Capalini is Offline
[11:33] Aphilo Aarde: ... astounding information technologies
[11:34] Aphilo Aarde: And Second Life is an example of the WWW being Chosen - in that
[11:34] Aphilo Aarde: it's both synchronous and asynchronous
[11:34] Aphilo Aarde: Well, this is the beginning of new forms of people being together.
[11:35] Aphilo Aarde: Virtual Communities is one name for this...
[11:35] Christinapsu5152 Palianta is Online
[11:35] Aphilo Aarde: Under the vision of Virtual Communities
[11:35] Aphilo Aarde: the Internet allowed people to get together
[11:36] Aphilo Aarde: Obviously, this wasn't necessarily a given - for example, if the Internet and the WWW was governed in a top down way
[11:36] Aphilo Aarde: it could well have been very community phobic
[11:37] Aphilo Aarde: Governments can tend toward the authoritarian - think China - and can choose to control information
[11:37] Aphilo Aarde: Virtual Communities are a potential threat to this way of thinking
[11:37] Aphilo Aarde: and these authoritarian Governance controlling processes
[11:38] Aphilo Aarde: So, under the vision of the virtual communities
[11:38] Aphilo Aarde: the Internet allowed people to get together
[11:38] Aphilo Aarde: for
[11:38] Aphilo Aarde: or with
[11:38] Aphilo Aarde: Free communication
[11:38] Aphilo Aarde: Building of Communities
[11:39] Aphilo Aarde: Breaking through from isolation
[11:39] Aphilo Aarde: Finding people like themselves online
[11:39] Aphilo Aarde: By contrast, as the web was diffusing widely in the mid-1990s
[11:39] Aphilo Aarde: you had another, opposite view of the world wide web
[11:40] Aphilo Aarde: which held that the internet and web alienated people
[11:40] Aphilo Aarde: The media especially perpetuated the idea that
[11:40] Aphilo Aarde: "The Internet is a world of perverted, lonely people"
[11:40] Aphilo Aarde: And there were a series of academic studies that began
[11:41] Aphilo Aarde: to address these questions
[11:41] Ju Roussel: sadly, today witnesses perversion of SL for me...
[11:41] Aphilo Aarde: We'll look at some of these studies shortly
[11:41] Aphilo Aarde: In what ways, Ju?
[11:41] Aphilo Aarde: Are you finding Second Life becoming perverted ?
[11:43] XiuJuan Ying is Online
[11:43] Aphilo Aarde: ( I think Second Life has actually strived a lot to remain open to sexuality, as an open, 'we build it,' virtual world - in a world of norms which mitigate against this, and yet where in SL there are so many other islands to go to, that this sexuality - perhaps what you call perverision - becomes contextualized)
[11:44] Ju Roussel: a youtube video that mocks Lindens, but has my friends avatars in it.
[11:44] Aphilo Aarde: (What do you think - I know Phil who was the Linden Lab CEO for a while, was very pro sex in SL).
[11:45] Ju Roussel: Right now looking into how to tackle this rather sensitive issue. The avatars are active in various communities of practice here in SL: education etc.
[11:45] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, I also think this SL virtual community gets a lot of bad press - perhaps like this youtube video - because of its pro-sex perspective).
[11:45] Ju Roussel: no sex in that video, just heavy mocking
[11:45] Aphilo Aarde: It's a sticking point for a variety of perspectives
[11:45] Aphilo Aarde: I see
[11:46] Aphilo Aarde: Well, let's look at some of these early studies on the role of alienation and the World Wide Web
[11:46] Jennette Forager is Online
[11:46] Christinapsu5152 Palianta is Offline
[11:46] Froukje Hoorenbeek is Online
[11:47] Aphilo Aarde: Presently, Keith Hampton, at the University of Pennsylvania, is the researcher who's research continues to examine these questions, and developments, with a longitudinal approach.
[11:47] Aphilo Aarde: On webnographers.org, his research
[11:48] Aphilo Aarde: is here
[11:48] XiuJuan Ying is Online
[11:48] Wibble Poplin is Online
[11:48] Aphilo Aarde: http://webnographers.org/index.php?title=Papers#Empirical_Studies_of_Particular_Internet_Projects.2C_Applications_and_Institutional_Adaptations
[11:48] Aphilo Aarde: for one
[11:48] Cat Abeyante is Offline
[11:48] Aphilo Aarde: and here's one relevant paper: Wellman, Barry, Anabel Quan-Haase, Jeffrey Boase, Wenhong Chen, Keith Hampton, Isabel Isla de Diaz, Kakuko Miyata. 2003. Social Affordances of Networked Individualism. Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication JCMC 8 (3) April 2003.
[11:49] Aphilo Aarde: and it's URL is here: http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol8/issue3/wellman.html
[11:49] Aphilo Aarde: And many of his papers are here: Hampton, Keith. 2009. Selected Information and Communication Technologies, Social Networks, and the Urban Environment Publications. University of Pennsylvania.
[11:49] Aphilo Aarde: so, here: http://www.mysocialnetwork.net/pub.html
[11:50] Aphilo Aarde: http://webnographers.org/index.php?title=Papers#Information_and_Communication_Technologies.2C_Social_Networks.2C_and_the_Urban_Environment
[11:50] XiuJuan Ying is Offline
[11:50] Aphilo Aarde: But before we begin, let's take a 10 minute break
[11:51] Aphilo Aarde: And when we'll return we'll begin to look at how People use the Internet for Personal Meaning
[11:51] XiuJuan Ying is Online
[11:51] Aphilo Aarde: So, a ten minute break ... and see you around 12 Second Life Time
[11:52] Malburns Writer is Offline
[11:53] JonathanE Cortes: kk
[11:53] Froukje Hoorenbeek is Offline
[11:53] Andromeda Mesmer: k
[11:55] Ju Roussel is Offline
[11:55] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed!
[11:56] Ju Roussel is Online
[11:57] JonathanE Cortes: say hi to everyone puppy
[11:57] Andromeda Mesmer: good dog
[11:59] JonathanE Cortes: lol
[11:59] Andromeda Mesmer: yes - yesterday & today.
[12:00] JonathanE Cortes: brb
[12:00] Aphilo Aarde: Hi
[12:00] XiuJuan Ying: hi
[12:00] Aphilo Aarde: Hi All
[12:00] Andromeda Mesmer: Hi
[12:00] sandhya2 Patel: hi
[12:00] Sybex Drachnyd: yo
[12:00] Aphilo Aarde: I've posted the transcript from the first half of today's class here: http://socinfotech.pbworks.com/InfoTechSoc8
[12:00] Aphilo Aarde: Hi XiuJuan
[12:01] XiuJuan Ying: hi Aphilo
[12:01] Aphilo Aarde: Welcome, Xiu
[12:01] Aphilo Aarde: So, in response to the idea
[12:02] XiuJuan Ying: thank you
[12:02] Aphilo Aarde: just as virtual communities were emerging in the mid 1990s
[12:02] Aphilo Aarde: that "The Internet is a world of perverted, lonely people"
[12:02] Aphilo Aarde: a number of academic studies emerged to look at this
[12:03] JonathanE Cortes: thats better
[12:03] Aphilo Aarde: And what these studies were asking was how People use the Internet for personal meaning.
[12:03] Aphilo Aarde: And what people were doing was role playing significantly
[12:04] Aphilo Aarde: On the Internet, people play roles with life.
[12:04] Aphilo Aarde: A MIT psychoanalyst
[12:04] Aphilo Aarde: Sherry Turkle
[12:04] Aphilo Aarde: wrote "Life on the Screen" at that time
[12:04] Breeze Underwood is Offline
[12:05] Aphilo Aarde: It's here: http://webnographers.org/index.php?title=Books#Identity_and_Internet_Ethnography
[12:05] Aphilo Aarde: in the 'Identity and Internet Ethnography' section at webnographers.org
[12:06] Aphilo Aarde: And what Turkle found was that people were using the Internet for
[12:06] Aphilo Aarde: - chat
[12:06] Aphilo Aarde: - building identities online
[12:06] Aphilo Aarde: - pretending to be someone else
[12:06] Aphilo Aarde: which in many ways is what people are doing in Second Life and many, many other virtual worlds.
[12:07] AJ Brooks is Offline
[12:07] Aphilo Aarde: ... each virtual world has its own focus
[12:07] Aphilo Aarde: The possibility of being 5 different people was what people were exploring in virtual communities
[12:07] Aphilo Aarde: for example
[12:08] Aphilo Aarde: And Turkle offered an origintal analysis of these fake identities
[12:08] Lemondrop Serendipity is Offline
[12:08] Aphilo Aarde: It was the notion that people would escape from lives as they are
[12:08] Aphilo Aarde: and in these new identities, they could
[12:08] Aphilo Aarde: - express what they want to express
[12:09] Aphilo Aarde: -psychoanalysts adored the possibilities in virtual worlds - because there was the potentially for no inhibitions.
[12:09] Aphilo Aarde: In 1995, the New Yorker published
[12:09] Aphilo Aarde: a cartoon with 2 dogs on a computer
[12:10] Aphilo Aarde: where one was saying "You know, the good thing about teh computer is that no one knows you're a dog"
[12:10] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[12:10] Aphilo Aarde: And in this context
[12:11] Aphilo Aarde: 3 visions for how people were engaging these early virtual communities also emerged
[12:11] Aphilo Aarde: 1 vision of the 1960s / flower culture
[12:11] Aphilo Aarde: where people were exploring counterculture
[12:11] Aphilo Aarde: 2 vision of perverted, lonely peoples - which we've talked about so far
[12:11] Lolly Dovgal is Online
[12:12] Aphilo Aarde: and 3 a vision of normal people living life online
[12:12] Aphilo Aarde: The problem with all of these positions and visions was that no one had looked at the data, or was even looking at the data.
[12:13] XiuJuan Ying is Offline
[12:13] Aphilo Aarde: (Here's the data: http://webnographers.org/)
[12:13] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[12:14] Aphilo Aarde: webnographers.org is the best wiki aggregation of all the great research on the internet to date, that I know of (I'm a main editor - and as a wiki - it's open to all of us to add and edit)
[12:14] XiuJuan Ying is Online
[12:15] Aphilo Aarde: So the important thing in exploring all these claims about how life online and virtual communities were affecting people
[12:15] Aphilo Aarde: was to find out what is actually happening online.
[12:15] Aphilo Aarde: In other words, what is the real view of what's really going on?
[12:16] Aphilo Aarde: And the media obscured the issue
[12:16] Aphilo Aarde: by jumping on the negative side
[12:16] Aphilo Aarde: And, of course, because "Bad news sells"
[12:17] Aphilo Aarde: So, again, the three profiles of virtual communities:
[12:17] Sophie Zuta is Online
[12:17] Aphilo Aarde: 1. everyone can live the way they want online - from his/her own experience online
[12:18] Green Tea (Hojicha): Mmmhh... leaves perfectly roasted, enjoy it XiuJuan Ying
[12:18] Aphilo Aarde: according to their own experiences of sociability and solidarity - online.
[12:18] Aphilo Aarde: 2. The World Wide Web is an instrument of personal isolation
[12:19] XiuJuan Ying is Offline
[12:19] Aphilo Aarde: of social deviants, where, if they're not, they will become deviants
[12:19] Buffy Beale is Online
[12:19] Aphilo Aarde: And this was the dominant view of the media, - that is the internet as the alienated masses
[12:19] Aphilo Aarde: Hello Buffy!
[12:19] Malburns Writer is Online
[12:19] Aphilo Aarde: (Welcome to Information Technology and Society)
[12:19] Buffy Beale: Hi! Sorry I'm late
[12:20] Aphilo Aarde: (Here's the transcript - http://socinfotech.pbworks.com/InfoTechSoc8 - through noon SLT and where it will be after).
[12:20] Aphilo Aarde: Welcome
[12:20] Buffy Beale: perfect thanks and u using voice today?
[12:20] Aphilo Aarde: So, the 3rd view of the media was that the Internet is an Instrument of role playing - of building fake identities.
[12:21] Aphilo Aarde: Boring
[12:21] Bon McLeod is Offline
[12:21] Aphilo Aarde: What really happens was the question in the mid 1990s, and still is ...
[12:21] XiuJuan Ying is Online
[12:21] Green Tea (Hojicha): Mmmhh... leaves perfectly roasted, enjoy it XiuJuan Ying
[12:21] Aphilo Aarde: So good sociological studies were conducted and published.
[12:22] Aphilo Aarde: ... and in different countries, etc. the U.S., England ...
[12:22] Aphilo Aarde: What's happening?
[12:22] Aphilo Aarde: Not much.
[12:22] Aphilo Aarde: People are using the World Wide Web to adapt to life
[12:22] Diego Ibanez is Online
[12:23] Aphilo Aarde: They're putting online at the service of what they want
[12:23] Lolly Dovgal is Offline
[12:23] Aphilo Aarde: And what results is that people twist and adapt.
[12:24] Aphilo Aarde: So, these studies begain to look at People's sociability in and on the Internet
[12:24] Bon McLeod is Online
[12:24] Aphilo Aarde: And they began to look at concrete statistics
[12:25] Aphilo Aarde: And a new organization at the time - the Pew Center for the Study of the Internet in American Life emerged
[12:25] Diego Ibanez is Offline
[12:25] Aphilo Aarde: to begin to develop concrete statistics - from the very beginning of the popularization of the internet!
[12:25] Aphilo Aarde: They were right there at a key moment with data gathering :)
[12:25] Andromeda Mesmer: Is this the Pew Center which does worldwide opinion polling?
[12:25] Aphilo Aarde: Yes
[12:26] Aphilo Aarde: They're actually called Pew Internet & American Life Project
[12:26] Aquiel Aero is Online
[12:27] Aphilo Aarde: Here's a current URL: http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_category.aspx?id=48 with research
[12:27] Aphilo Aarde: Some of the first questions that these researchers were addressing had to do with PATTERNS OF SOCIABILITY
[12:28] Aphilo Aarde: For example, How much do these new patterns of sociability influence how these internet users meet with families
[12:28] Aphilo Aarde: with neighbors
[12:28] Buffy Beale: interesting!
[12:28] Aphilo Aarde: and what do these people do with meeting their families neighbors, and new friends online
[12:28] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[12:29] Aphilo Aarde: Another set of questions
[12:29] JonathanE Cortes: it is always thus
[12:29] Aphilo Aarde: have to do with activities people do online beyond work
[12:30] Aphilo Aarde: Jonathan - that new technologies come along, and people want to know what's happen
[12:30] Aphilo Aarde: I need to move something here
[12:30] Aphilo Aarde: - be back in 2 minutes -
[12:30] Aphilo Aarde: sorry
[12:31] Aphilo Aarde: brb
[12:31] Buffy Beale: kk
[12:31] JonathanE Cortes: np
[12:31] Buffy Beale: so hi everyone, just catching up
[12:31] JonathanE Cortes: Hi Buffy
[12:31] XiuJuan Ying: hi buffy
[12:31] Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Buffy
[12:31] Buffy Beale: whew, you're all awake
[12:31] Buffy Beale: lol
[12:31] JonathanE Cortes: lol
[12:32] Sybex Drachnyd: ya
[12:32] Buffy Beale: so forgive me if I ask some dumb questions
[12:32] JonathanE Cortes: or am I ?
[12:32] Buffy Beale: wait, not dumb, curious
[12:32] Buffy Beale: depends what else you're multitaking at JonE
[12:32] JonathanE Cortes: dinner
[12:32] Buffy Beale: so fill me in, is this the first class
[12:33] Andromeda Mesmer: sure -
[12:33] JonathanE Cortes: :-)
[12:33] Buffy Beale: :)
[12:33] Andromeda Mesmer: no -- early on in a series of lectures and discussions though.
[12:33] JonathanE Cortes: un UK its a late dinner
[12:33] sandhya2 Patel: na it's like the 10th
[12:33] Aphilo Aarde: Haven't figured out how to move much physically from a digital perspective - garage doors and amazon books are as close as it gets
[12:33] Ju Roussel: No, it's like a serious semester... stopped counting them
[12:33] Andromeda Mesmer: Earlier ones are posted .
[12:33] Buffy Beale: hahah
[12:33] Buffy Beale: ok
[12:33] Buffy Beale: I'll catch up
[12:33] Buffy Beale: oh oh iPuppy needs to go out
[12:33] SL-iPuppy V1.3 att 2.0:
Mmm. Aw. I will mention that to my Sancho Almodovar, .
[12:34] JonathanE Cortes: there are notes for the last few weeks online
[12:34] Andromeda Mesmer: Jonathan - don't know if you are aware - but your puppy is spamming in the chat ...
[12:34] Aphilo Aarde: Hi Buffy
[12:34] Buffy Beale: Hi aphilo
[12:34] Aphilo Aarde: This is a class on "information technology and society"
[12:34] Ju Roussel: Woot, the puppy is trashing the chat
[12:34] JonathanE Cortes: sorry off
[12:34] Andromeda Mesmer: Thank you
[12:34] Aphilo Aarde: on the information technology revolution - which began in
[12:34] Aphilo Aarde: January and will continue at least through May 1
[12:35] Buffy Beale: ok ty I'll read the posts to catchup
[12:35] Aphilo Aarde: I'll give you a card shortly -
[12:35] Buffy Beale: so some house rules pls
[12:35] Aphilo Aarde: the transcripts are online here -
[12:35] Buffy Beale: if the others dont mind
[12:35] Aphilo Aarde: http://socinfotech.pbworks.com
[12:35] JonathanE Cortes: np , welcome
[12:35] Buffy Beale: is backchat encouraged, on topic I mean
[12:36] Profdan Netizen is Online
[12:36] Aphilo Aarde: Today is week 8 of this open, free class, which goes from 11:10 a - to 1 pm on Harvard's virtual island, with office hours from 1:10p-2
[12:36] Kate Miranda is Online
[12:36] Buffy Beale accepted your inventory offer.
[12:36] Buffy Beale: great ty
[12:36] Ju Roussel: Buffy, go for it! I had mini rebels on here, and enjoyed them very much.
[12:36] Aphilo Aarde: Backchat makes enriches the conversation
[12:36] Sophie Zuta is Offline
[12:36] Buffy Beale: agree
[12:37] Aphilo Aarde: a lot ... and I also have a lot of material I cover ... so yes, please ...
[12:37] Aphilo Aarde: Observations and Questions throughout my talks helps people focus, and it isn't disruptive because it's in group chat
[12:37] Buffy Beale: Sorry I missed the beginning but I'll catch up quick
[12:38] Buffy Beale: ok perfect ty
[12:38] Buffy Beale: and thanks to everyone for your patience
[12:38] Aphilo Aarde: It leads fascinatingly to multiple lines of reasoning, especially because the transcripts are saved and we come back to ideas
[12:38] Buffy Beale: perfect!
[12:38] XiuJuan Ying: welcome
[12:38] Aphilo Aarde: The SL group is "Soc and Info Tech - Aphilo on Berkman"
[12:38] Buffy Beale: ty X
[12:39] Buffy Beale: ok I'll join up
[12:39] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[12:39] Aphilo Aarde: Glad you're here
[12:39] Buffy Beale: rats too many groups just sec while I do some weeding to join but carry on and
[12:39] Buffy Beale: glad to be here!
[12:39] Marian Dragovar is Online
[12:40] go1984 Winsmore is Offline
[12:40] Jules Mandelbrot is Online
[12:40] Aphilo Aarde: So, are there observations and questions at this point
[12:41] Aphilo Aarde: What are the qualities of alienation and sociality that each of you experience with virtual communities, before we proceed with some more interesting studies?
[12:42] Ju Roussel: I experienced no allienation.
[12:42] Aphilo Aarde: Let's take these research to ourselves - chat-ethnography :)
[12:42] Andromeda Mesmer: I guess one point about synthetic worlds = there is a dropout rate of 90% in SL, and apparently others too -- within 3 months of joining. And many people never actually proceed after they register.
[12:42] Aphilo Aarde: from the beginning, JU - in retrospect with all the time you've spent online - since when?
[12:42] Buffy Beale: well for one, I connected with people and wouldn't have believed how personal it could get, real friendships with folks I've never met
[12:43] Buffy Beale: and yes was alienated before I met some 'like-minded' people
[12:43] Andromeda Mesmer: Very true, Buffy -
[12:43] sandhya2 Patel: for years i stayed quiet socially but now i'm branching out a little
[12:43] Ju Roussel: My hardware allienated me, so this avatar is in fact active for about 6 months, and it will be my 3rd rezday in the Autumn.
[12:43] sandhya2 Patel: sl gives endless opportunities for art expression
[12:43] Aphilo Aarde: Interesting Andromeda - I think ease of use, and information diffusion are two reasons , but I don't know the "retention/attritition research"
[12:44] Andromeda Mesmer: It's also interesting that just as in RL - one can have friends who you associate with for different activities - like say, for building, or others for discussions.
[12:44] Buffy Beale: yes Sand2
[12:44] Aphilo Aarde: for virtual worlds very well - would you like to do a little research project, Andromeda, on this, - starting with webnographers.org
[12:44] Andromeda Mesmer: The 90% dropout rate is astonishing to me -- why I've remembered it, checked on it from time to time -
[12:44] Andromeda Mesmer: That is one reason why I try to help newbies .
[12:44] Aphilo Aarde: There's probably something in the papers section - http://webnographers.org/index.php?title=Papers
[12:45] Sybex Drachnyd: i am new
[12:45] Buffy Beale: yes and why Linden are putting more effort into better first time expeience
[12:45] Sybex Drachnyd: it is not easy here
[12:45] Aphilo Aarde: What's great about SL is its open-endedness with an already existing fairly large community - making it social.... and a lot has been built here since 2002-ish
[12:45] Bon McLeod is Offline
[12:45] Andromeda Mesmer: Very steep learning curve in first 3 months, and lots of opportunity for newbies to get embarassed about mistakes - or offended at something.
[12:45] You decline Music Island, Sea Turtle Island Metaverse (49, 43, 21) from A group member named Kate Miranda.
[12:46] Ju Roussel: Sybex, feel free to IM me any time. Nobody deserves hardships here.
[12:46] JonathanE Cortes: I find great value in events like this
[12:46] Aphilo Aarde: So, Buffy - do you think that 'getting personal' has to do with avatar identity - which makes it safe?
[12:46] Buffy Beale: Agree Aphilo, time to form groups
[12:46] Sybex Drachnyd: thanks ju
[12:46] Aphilo Aarde: (Glad we're all chatting:)
[12:46] Buffy Beale: yes, eventually I mean, as I became more attached to my avi
[12:47] Luna Bliss is Offline
[12:47] Buffy Beale: at first no, just felt like a cartoon walking around, more playing
[12:47] Aphilo Aarde: So, Buffy, you experienced alienation first with digital technologies, and virtual worlds with community building changed this?
[12:47] Buffy Beale: than anything serious
[12:47] Buffy Beale: yes exactly
[12:48] Andromeda Mesmer: I had the good fortune of running into helpful people, and used to hang out at the New Citizens place too ...
[12:48] Buffy Beale: the flat web, email, I understand why some would connect via email though, but in virtual it adds another dimension
[12:48] Bon McLeod is Online
[12:48] Jules Mandelbrot is Offline
[12:48] Buffy Beale: yes Andro, it's all about the first experiences, and connecting
[12:49] JonathanE Cortes: deffo
[12:49] Aphilo Aarde: So Sandhya, would you say quiet = alienated, and
[12:49] Aphilo Aarde: branching out means sociality building?
[12:49] sandhya2 Patel: i do not understand the question
[12:49] Aphilo Aarde: (I'm going back to read your observations - conversation is great).
[12:49] Andromeda Mesmer: But I was also very interested in learning - people who are older are then more inclined to help, if you are serious.
[12:49] sandhya2 Patel: no not alienated at all
[12:50] Ju Roussel: Many people real cognitive impairments break through their life-long shiness by participating in communities here.
[12:50] sandhya2 Patel: i love art and i see sl as an art medium of endless possibilities
[12:50] sandhya2 Patel: i did not take time for much social endevor
[12:50] Buffy Beale: @Andro older being the more experienced, its not just older people younger too
[12:50] Andromeda Mesmer: Right.
[12:50] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, Andromeda (re: 12:44) - multiple groups expand dramatically with virtual worlds and digital technologies -
[12:51] JenzZa Misfit is Online
[12:51] Aphilo Aarde: and this is waht researchers found in the mid-90s - that digital technologies lead to different forms of sociality, and not alienation
[12:51] Buffy Beale: @sand2 that is great! Creativity is unlimited here
[12:51] sandhya2 Patel: that is why i came here in the first place
[12:52] sandhya2 Patel: and i have met others who feel the same
[12:52] Aphilo Aarde: And even this year, Keith Hampton, at the University of Pennsylvania - and who studies this academically (he knows the research literature the best), was confirming this, and pointing to new studies
[12:52] Aphilo Aarde: confirming this.
[12:52] Andromeda Mesmer: Very tempted to illustrate the possibilities of art by dragging out the one man band blurtaphone, but think I shold refrain :D
[12:52] Sybex Drachnyd: hahahah
[12:53] Buffy Beale: lol andro go for it
[12:53] Buffy Beale: haha
[12:53] Sybex Drachnyd: new as i am i have seen tht
[12:53] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, Andormeda @12:48 - lots of serendipitous meetings in virtual worlds, paralleling real life - worth going to academic conferences on virtual worlds, for examaple.
[12:53] Buffy Beale: yes! and from these events you connect with others
[12:53] Aphilo Aarde: Buffy - 1248 agreed - virtual worlds are experiential and connecting oriented.
[12:53] Andromeda Mesmer: Well -- I got the blurtaphone as a result of going to the artists "Show & Tell" on Sundays --
[12:54] Buffy Beale: lol someones mic is open...
[12:54] Aphilo Aarde: I see, Sandhya - makes sense
[12:54] Andromeda Mesmer: This is what the blurtaphone looks like --
[12:54] Andromeda Mesmer: made by 2 professional sound artists --
[12:55] Buffy Beale: lol you wear it?
[12:55] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[12:55] Aphilo Aarde: Love the euphonium :)
[12:55] sandhya2 Patel: play it for a second please
[12:55] Andromeda Mesmer: Yes -- I wear it.
[12:55] sandhya2 Patel: hahahahah
[12:55] JonathanE Cortes: grins
[12:55] JonathanE Cortes: lol
[12:55] Sybex Drachnyd: cool
[12:55] Buffy Beale: very
[12:55] Andromeda Mesmer: It was made for free by Loren Tone and his friend Madcow Cosmos.
[12:55] Dallas Trefoil is Offline
[12:56] sandhya2 Patel: madcow is famous
[12:56] sandhya2 Patel: a great artist
[12:56] Aphilo Aarde: So, to close for this week, is it playable Andro?
[12:56] Aphilo Aarde: Can we hear?
[12:56] JonathanE Cortes: I can hear it
[12:56] Andromeda Mesmer: It's got many variations -- and -- was described as a way to entertain at a party, organize a parade, scare the dogs and cats, and irritate the neighbours.
[12:56] Buffy Beale: madcow's art is amazing
[12:56] Aphilo Aarde: And I just wanted to point out the budding Music School at World University & School
[12:56] Buffy Beale: hahahha
[12:56] Buffy Beale: me too, fun!
[12:57] Aphilo Aarde: :) as a parallel - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Music
[12:57] Aphilo Aarde: :) :) :) :)
[12:57] Andromeda Mesmer: It has MANY variations -- loops -- very well synchronized.
[12:57] XiuJuan Ying: we shud all have one next week
[12:57] Andromeda Mesmer: I'm just playing one --
[12:57] Aphilo Aarde: So cool :) - the Euphonium music you're making Andromeda!
[12:57] Ju Roussel: Avatar Orchestra should be starting on Music Island in just a couple of minutes :)
[12:57] Aphilo Aarde: Let's bring musical instruments and jam
[12:58] Aphilo Aarde: Will you post the URL Ju?
[12:58] Aphilo Aarde: or SLURL?
[12:58] XiuJuan Ying: so cool
[12:58] Andromeda Mesmer: Let me get the LM for Loren Tone's place --
[12:58] Buffy Beale: sure
[12:58] Aphilo Aarde: Now the drums kick in
[12:58] Ju Roussel: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sea%20Turtle%20Island/39/2/24
[12:58] Aphilo Aarde: This is pretty wild
[12:58] Andromeda Mesmer: I turned on the drums.
[12:58] Buffy Beale: lol ur rockin
[12:58] Ju Roussel: no idea what that orchestra is though
[12:58] Aphilo Aarde: Do check out the Bassoon lesson at World University and School's budding Music School
[12:58] XiuJuan Ying: can we danse in class
[12:59] Buffy Beale: there is a concert today in Sl, made up of an orchestra
[12:59] Andromeda Mesmer: I said to somebody that this would be one good reason to get a bunch of alts --
[12:59] Aphilo Aarde: It's a Juilliard / New York Philharmonic musician
[12:59] Aphilo Aarde: http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Music
[12:59] Aphilo Aarde: And the 9-part Banjo work shop is from a folk festival
[12:59] JonathanE Cortes: can you hear my Didgeridoo/?
[12:59] Aphilo Aarde: Love it!
[12:59] Andromeda Mesmer: just changed it -
[12:59] Buffy Beale: great!
[12:59] Aphilo Aarde: not yet, Jonathan
[12:59] sandhya2 Patel: hahahah
[12:59] Aphilo Aarde: Thank you!
[12:59] sandhya2 Patel: sounds good together
[13:00] Buffy Beale: aren't we bad, jumping up and having fun in the middle of class...
[13:00] Andromeda Mesmer: Now met me fish out the LM --
[13:00] Aphilo Aarde: Thanks so much for the music !
[13:00] Aphilo Aarde: Wish I had a drum to add the drums that are playing
[13:00] Andromeda Mesmer gave you Lorin's Sound Shack, SINNIQ SIM 01 (199, 115, 22).
[13:00] XiuJuan Ying: does the doggie not danse?
[13:00] JonathanE Cortes: no but will chat
[13:01] Aphilo Aarde: So thank you all for coming ! - Invitation to Teach, Add and Learn at World University and School
[13:01] Buffy Beale: Aphilo I'm so happy I stumbled across this, will be unplugged next two weeks but will catch up
[13:01] Aphilo Aarde: There is a free Ph.D. at Harvard listed at World Univ in Education for 2011 and 2012
[13:01] Aphilo Aarde: http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Courses#Free_Ph.D.s
[13:01] JonathanE Cortes: thx
[13:01] XiuJuan Ying: ty andromeda
[13:01] Aphilo Aarde: And free degrees will grow at World Univ
[13:01] Buffy Beale: wow thats amazing Aphilo! A free PhD???
[13:02] Aphilo Aarde: Next week, more on the sociality of the internet
[13:02] Aphilo Aarde: And this was an example of great sociality - our conversation and the music
[13:02] Ju Roussel: I hope they do give a scholarship heh :) A normal US PhD.
[13:02] Aphilo Aarde: Glad you all could come
[13:02] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, Buffy
[13:02] JonathanE Cortes: so we off for 2 week now
[13:02] Aphilo Aarde: Free Ph.D. at Harvard - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Courses#Free_Ph.D.s
[13:02] Buffy Beale: great Aphilo!
[13:02] Aphilo Aarde: and free degrees will grow
[13:03] XiuJuan Ying: that realy good andromeda
[13:03] Buffy Beale: thats good news
[13:03] Aphilo Aarde: Degrees aren't free in the U.S. too often, Ju, although you in Sweden get scholarships :)
[13:03] Andromeda Mesmer: I go to the artists "Show & Tell" on Avaria -- that's every Sunday, and anybody can come.
[13:03] JonathanE Cortes: have fun
[13:03] JonathanE Cortes: :-)
[13:03] Aphilo Aarde: Great Andromeda :)
[13:03] Buffy Beale: nice Andro
[13:04] sandhya2 Patel: thanks
[13:04] JonathanE Cortes: for got I made it ,:-) you reminded me
[13:04] Andromeda Mesmer: Some time I will be brave enough to show somethere there that I made, but not yet.
[13:04] Buffy Beale: if anyone has a nonprofit, we meet every week on Fridays at 8:30 AM SLT
[13:04] JonathanE Cortes: thx A/M
[13:05] Sybex Drachnyd: tx
[13:05] XiuJuan Ying: it so quiet lol
[13:05] Buffy Beale: or even if you're interested in nonprofits
[13:05] JonathanE Cortes: we shoulld have a drum party
[13:05] Aphilo Aarde: So, I've posted this whole transcript here: http://socinfotech.pbworks.com/InfoTechSoc8
[13:05] Michele Mrigesh is Online
[13:05] Buffy Beale: or Metanomics, now there's an interesting group of folks
[13:05] Buffy Beale: have amazing sessions and discussions
[13:06] JonathanE Cortes: that my fave group
[13:06] XiuJuan Ying: Aphilo can you rap the lectures
[13:06] Andromeda Mesmer: So there is lots of opportunity for artists to have fun -- but engineers and scientists can have fun in SL too -- like building the International Rocketry Museum -
[13:06] Buffy Beale: yes!
[13:06] JonathanE Cortes: lol
[13:06] Andromeda Mesmer: Writers meetings -- interact with fans --
[13:06] Aphilo Aarde: A drum party would be cool
[13:06] JonathanE Cortes: Ill make some drums if I get tim
[13:06] Andromeda Mesmer: Yes it would be
[13:07] Buffy Beale: can we go on a field trip sometime, maybe tour our fav places
[13:07] Malburns Writer is Offline
[13:07] Aphilo Aarde: If you want to organize it, we could do it in office hours Jonathan
[13:07] Andromeda Mesmer: Or just get the blurtaphones -- they are already synchronized, and I understand that getting instruments synchornized can be a problem.
[13:07] JonathanE Cortes: yes , whos making the sandwiches
[13:07] Buffy Beale: Svarga, a wonderful sim has a drumming room
[13:07] JonathanE Cortes: cool
[13:07] JonathanE Cortes: no its gone
[13:07] sandhya2 Patel: you are all invited to the gallery
[13:07] Andromeda Mesmer: I think Svarga went away --
[13:07] Aphilo Aarde: I also want to add musical jam opportunities in virtual Worlds to World University & School's Music School
[13:07] sandhya2 Patel: it is on my pics
[13:07] Andromeda Mesmer: It may be back now?
[13:07] Buffy Beale: it's back JE I was there the other day
[13:07] Buffy Beale: surprised me too
[13:07] Aphilo Aarde: http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Music
[13:08] JonathanE Cortes: I thought Svarga had gone ! ?
[13:08] Andromeda Mesmer: Oh -- wonderful!!!
[13:08] Andromeda Mesmer: Svarga has musical instruments too.
[13:08] Buffy Beale: yes it's changed but it's still there
[13:08] Buffy Beale: yes
[13:08] sandhya2 Patel: it's back!! and better than ever svarga
[13:08] Bon McLeod is Offline
[13:08] Buffy Beale: oh, and so does The PotHealer
[13:08] JonathanE Cortes: SLURL ? plz
[13:08] Buffy Beale: nicely tucked in the woods I think
[13:08] Andromeda Mesmer: PotHealer? LM?
[13:08] Buffy Beale: Pothead is in my pics
[13:08] Aphilo Aarde: I'll keep the nonprofits meeting in mind, Buffy - World University and School is becoming a nonprofit
[13:08] Buffy Beale: Svarga, just open your map and look up Svarga
[13:09] JonathanE Cortes: I loved that place (Svarga)
[13:09] JonathanE Cortes: kk
[13:09] Buffy Beale: wow Aphilo! Come have an office at the NPC
[13:09] Buffy Beale: kk
[13:09] Aphilo Aarde: can't rap lectures yet, Xiu ... but let's explore
[13:09] JonathanE Cortes: I know where Im going now
[13:09] JonathanE Cortes: Svarga Svarga Svarga woooohhhh
[13:10] Andromeda Mesmer: Who would like a LM to the Sunday Artists Show & Tell? It's on at 2 pm SLT.
[13:10] JonathanE Cortes: me plz
[13:10] Buffy Beale: sure Andro not sure I can make it but just in case
[13:10] XiuJuan Ying: that would be good
[13:10] Aphilo Aarde: Class meets next week, as well
[13:11] Aphilo Aarde: Dancing in class is great Xiu
[13:11] JonathanE Cortes: thx
[13:11] XiuJuan Ying: ty
[13:11] Andromeda Mesmer: Anybody else for the LM?
[13:11] Sybex Drachnyd: yes
[13:11] JonathanE Cortes: so Im off to Svarga , sory I love that place , was sad when it went
[13:12] Buffy Beale: great, see if u can find the cave where the dragon hung out
[13:12] Andromeda Mesmer: I'm delighted that it is back -- it would be nice if Privateer Space came back too.
[13:12] sandhya2 Patel: i think the lindens are supporting it now
[13:12] JonathanE Cortes: l8r guys
[13:12] sandhya2 Patel: so it is a perminant landmark
[13:12] Buffy Beale: bb JC
[13:12] JonathanE Cortes: so is that it for 2 weeks ?
[13:12] Aphilo Aarde: Great Buffy - let's talk
[13:13] Aphilo Aarde: about the office later
[13:13] Andromeda Mesmer: That's wonderful that the Lindens decided to do that.
[13:13] Buffy Beale: kk
[13:13] XiuJuan Ying: Thanks Aphilo
[13:13] Buffy Beale: Maybe time for an update lets talk about getting u on agenda
[13:13] sandhya2 Patel: great class aphilo
[13:13] Aphilo Aarde: Music island has a concert now, and I have office hours until 2 SLT
[13:13] Buffy Beale: Aphilo I mean
[13:13] XiuJuan Ying: nice meeting you buffy and sybex
[13:14] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:14] Buffy Beale: lol go to the concert
[13:14] Aphilo Aarde: Sounds good, Buffy
[13:14] Sybex Drachnyd: nice to meet too
[13:14] Buffy Beale: yes likewise Xiu, feel lucky I found out about this
[13:14] Aphilo Aarde: Loves the music, Andromeda - thanks :)
[13:15] Sybex Drachnyd: this feels good to come here
[13:15] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:15] Andromeda Mesmer: Anytime, Aphilo -- :)
[13:15] Sybex Drachnyd: i do not type well\
[13:15] XiuJuan Ying: bye every one
[13:15] Andromeda Mesmer: I've got more musical instruments too --
[13:15] Aphilo Aarde: Bye Xiu
[13:15] Sybex Drachnyd: bye
[13:15] Buffy Beale: byee
[13:15] XiuJuan Ying: great music andromeda
[13:15] Aphilo Aarde: Bye Buffy, Sybex
[13:15] Buffy Beale: me too I'm off, bye for now
[13:15] Aphilo Aarde: Which instruments do you have?
[13:15] Andromeda Mesmer: At Lorin Tone's Sound Sahack -- you can try out everything ...
[13:15] Aphilo Aarde: I'll check it out later
[13:16] Alice Thibodeaux is Online
[13:17] Andromeda Mesmer: I've got some that are just shaped like instruments -
[13:17] Andromeda Mesmer: But others do play --
[13:17] Andromeda Mesmer: The best is probably the latest one, my Blurtaphone.
[13:17] Buffy Beale: yes thinking I'll go get one now
[13:17] Andromeda Mesmer: I'll show you one more.
[13:18] Aphilo Aarde: Yes please
[13:18] Buffy Beale: rats that I have to miss but going away to a place with no internet, phone or cable
[13:18] Andromeda Mesmer: Oh -- cant' rez on the floor here.
[13:18] Andromeda Mesmer: However -- Aphilo -- you can rez here ?
[13:19] Andromeda Mesmer gave you drum stompbox.
[13:19] Aphilo Aarde: Thanks
[13:19] Andromeda Mesmer: I gave you the Drum stompbox -
[13:19] Aphilo Aarde: I'll try
[13:19] Aphilo Aarde: thnx
[13:19] Buffy Beale: bye, thanks again Aphilo this is fantastic!
[13:19] Andromeda Mesmer: There's also bad lag
[13:19] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:19] Andromeda Mesmer: Just press the keys --
[13:19] Aphilo Aarde: well the drum box appeared
[13:20] Andromeda Mesmer: I heard that -
[13:20] Aphilo Aarde: can't hear anything when I press the numbers
[13:20] Aphilo Aarde: heard cymbol
[13:20] Andromeda Mesmer: I hear cymbals.
[13:20] Aphilo Aarde: lag perhaps
[13:20] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:20] Aphilo Aarde: 'tis working
[13:20] Aphilo Aarde: love it
[13:21] Andromeda Mesmer: Keys #7 and 8 don't work, I think.
[13:21] Andromeda Mesmer: I haven't tried out these other ones -- but -- they should work too.
[13:21] Tara Yeats is Online
[13:21] Second Life: Your object 'drum stompbox' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Synthetic Berkman from parcel 'Meeting Area' at Berkman 114, 44 due to parcel auto return.
[13:21] Andromeda Mesmer gave you keyboard stompbox.
[13:22] Arawn Spitteler is Online
[13:22] Aphilo Aarde: very cool - thanks - 6 new instruments - a little like the first personal computer - Altair
[13:22] Aphilo Aarde: Thanks !
[13:22] Andromeda Mesmer: I've got a rather large inventory, and mostly well organized.
[13:23] Aphilo Aarde: I'd love your musical instruments, if you share them
[13:23] Andromeda Mesmer: Much of this is actually only the instrument and an animation, but no sound.
[13:24] Andromeda Mesmer: This is pretty well what I've got --
[13:24] Aphilo Aarde: ok ... thank you very much!
[13:24] Dena Dana is Online
[13:24] Andromeda Mesmer: Oh -- also a large harp - but the music there is limited.
[13:24] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:24] JonathanE Cortes is Offline
[13:24] Andromeda Mesmer: Last time, Lorin Tone showed his 2 large harps -- they sang to each other, had faces --
[13:24] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:24] Aphilo Aarde: sounds beautiful
[13:25] Ju Roussel is Offline
[13:25] Andromeda Mesmer: Lorin Tone likes to do presentations at the Show & Tell every few weeks -- astonishng things with music, floating planets, light effects.
[13:25] Aphilo Aarde: :) Please let me know
[13:25] Aphilo Aarde: sounds illuminating
[13:26] Andromeda Mesmer: Well -- this is all at the Avaria Show & Tell -- on Sundays at 2 pm SLT.
[13:26] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:26] Andromeda Mesmer: Other people show things like buildings, gardens, animated critters, airships.
[13:26] Aphilo Aarde: often not online then, but ...
[13:26] Andromeda Mesmer: There is a huge Steampunk movement --
[13:27] Dallas Trefoil is Online
[13:27] Andromeda Mesmer: They show the alternative technologies -- if Babbage had been able to build a working computer -- what would have the world looked like?
[13:27] Ju Roussel is Online
[13:27] Aphilo Aarde: very interesting
[13:28] Andromeda Mesmer: That group of people go in for wearing vaguely Victorian style clothing -- make giant airships -- buildings with a Victorian look to them --
[13:28] Ju Roussel is Offline
[13:28] Ju Roussel is Online
[13:28] Andromeda Mesmer: It's a very romantic view of Victorian times -- with a good dash of Jules Verne.
[13:28] Wibble Poplin is Offline
[13:29] Andromeda Mesmer: it seems to have attracted a very intelligent group of people too.
[13:29] Aphilo Aarde: interesting
[13:29] Aquiel Aero is Offline
[13:29] Aphilo Aarde: sounds worth checking out
[13:29] Andromeda Mesmer: The main area there is called "Caledon - have their own flag too --
[13:30] Ju Roussel is Offline
[13:30] Andromeda Mesmer: i think those LM's are still good.
[13:30] Aquiel Aero is Online
[13:30] Ju Roussel is Online
[13:31] Andromeda Mesmer gave you STEAMPUNK 19th c. Steampunk Vic, Caledon Victoria City (133, 1.
[13:31] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Berkman/113/45/25
[13:31] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[13:31] Connected
[13:31] Andromeda Mesmer gave you Caledon Glengarry, Caledon Glengarry (213, 89, 23).
[13:31] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Caledon%20Oxbridge%20Village/171/53/36
[13:31] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[13:31] Connected
[13:31] Ju Roussel is Offline
[13:32] Ju Roussel is Online
[13:32] Jennette Forager is Offline
[13:32] Aphilo Aarde: Oops hit teleport by accident
[13:33] Andromeda Mesmer: I made some adjustments so these days, don't get accidentally teleported.
[13:33] JenzZa Misfit is Offline
[13:33] Aphilo Aarde: What are some of the 'bests of SL' which you know about? Things which push the SL envelope - like Pi Day at San Francisco's Exploratorim in SL
[13:34] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:34] Andromeda Mesmer: Well -- Svarga, Gardens of Apollo,
[13:34] Andromeda Mesmer: Museums --
[13:34] Aphilo Aarde: Patio Plasma and company are making a lot of Physic's exhibits which use the Havoc physic engine in new ways.
[13:34] Aphilo Aarde: ... for example.
[13:35] Andromeda Mesmer: The Star Trek Museum -- International Space Flight Museum.
[13:35] Aphilo Aarde: Interesting
[13:35] Aphilo Aarde: And avatar design?
[13:35] Andromeda Mesmer: I didn't hear of Patio Plasma - I should look at that.
[13:35] Aphilo Aarde: And do you see any modeling of RL world in SL which might fit together in to a whole earth?
[13:36] Andromeda Mesmer: Oh -- Avatar Design -- that's at the Sunday Show & Tell -- my favourite was a tugboat with smokestack.
[13:36] MacZ Urbanowicz is Online
[13:36] Aphilo Aarde: Patio is one of 20 research Ph.D.s at San Francisco's Exploratorium, and a senior scientist there
[13:36] Aphilo Aarde: with degrees from MIT - who is exploring Second Life physics vis-a-vis the Exploratorium
[13:37] Aphilo Aarde: Henry Segerman - (he has a Stanford Ph.D. in math is also making interesting math objects in SL).
[13:37] Andromeda Mesmer: My interest currently is how to animate my builds -- I failed, except for the spinning.
[13:37] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:38] Andromeda Mesmer: I will try again to put something on the ground here.
[13:38] Aphilo Aarde: Great - not sure why it won't work here for you .. only in the sandbox perhaps - doesn't make sense
[13:38] Aphilo Aarde: there you are
[13:39] Andromeda Mesmer: Ah - worked that time!
[13:39] Crimsom Nightfire is Online
[13:39] Andromeda Mesmer: I wanted to make the central figure turn and jump - unfortunately, was not possible.
[13:39] Andromeda Mesmer: A scripter friend said there are oftlen several ways to dos omething in SL -- and none of them are really good.
[13:40] Aphilo Aarde: Dancing figures would be great
[13:40] Andromeda Mesmer: At one point, I was trying for zero gravity.
[13:40] Aphilo Aarde: I've had that experience ... and yet SL is instantiated
[13:40] Andromeda Mesmer: This figure could be animated with Puppeteer -- but I don't know Puppeteer yet.
[13:40] Andromeda Mesmer: I was pretty happy with this - entered it into a competition.
[13:41] Andromeda Mesmer: Did't win -- I think cats are more popular -- like this one --
[13:41] MacZ Urbanowicz is Offline
[13:41] Aphilo Aarde: Hmmm
[13:42] MacZ Urbanowicz is Online
[13:42] Andromeda Mesmer: It doesn't actually play anything --
[13:42] MacZ Urbanowicz is Offline
[13:42] Andromeda Mesmer: But - people liked it.
[13:42] Aphilo Aarde: It's so close - partially finished builds are many in SL
[13:42] Aphilo Aarde: It's visual interesting
[13:42] Buffy Beale is Offline
[13:43] Andromeda Mesmer: More interesting than the other one -- I tried to give it an active sort of look - cat in mid leap --
[13:44] Andromeda Mesmer: Well, my current build -- what I am working on -- roof for a Pagoda. I ws surprised to find out how difficult those are to do well.
[13:44] Andromeda Mesmer: One basically has to do some cheating to make it come out.
[13:44] Aphilo Aarde: Building in SL is like that
[13:45] Aphilo Aarde: I think -- I like M's Hot Springs
[13:45] Andromeda Mesmer: Well -- some building is pretty straight forward -- but other building can be difficult.
[13:45] Andromeda Mesmer: Do you have the LM for the Hot Springs?
[13:45] Aphilo Aarde: I'm still wondering how to build virtual Harbin with no budget - about 4 sims worth
[13:46] Aphilo Aarde: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Veil%20of%20Shadows/123/12/22
[13:46] Andromeda Mesmer: I've decided to build by doing small sections first.
[13:46] Aphilo Aarde: It's simple but the nature and hot springs ideas are central
[13:48] Andromeda Mesmer: I'll have a look -- I'm particularly interested in use of -- particles -- hide the defects in water.
[13:48] Andromeda Mesmer: I mean -- hide seams, where 2 water prims come together.
[13:49] Andromeda Mesmer: That's the only way to do it -- or stick in a plant or rock --
[13:49] Aphilo Aarde: Virtual Harbin is a long term field site
[13:49] Aphilo Aarde: And also topographically realistic
[13:49] Aphilo Aarde: I hope
[13:50] Aphilo Aarde: My hands seem to be scripted typing
[13:51] Andromeda Mesmer: I'm not so enthralled with realism these days :) "Beautiful" -- is good enough.
[13:51] Andromeda Mesmer: "scripted typing" -- that can go on because of lag.
[13:51] Buffy Beale is Online
[13:51] Aphilo Aarde: I like the Yosemite top grid on Rumsey's sim - seems imcomplete
[13:51] Aphilo Aarde: And i like the Mont St. Michel island in Normandy, France
[13:51] Aphilo Aarde: fair realistic
[13:52] Andromeda Mesmer: Mont St. Michel is beautiful.
[13:52] Aphilo Aarde: But there is a Second Life Bird's Eye View which is fascinating
[13:52] Andromeda Mesmer: Not aware of that last one.
[13:52] Aphilo Aarde: which comes together with realism
[13:52] Andromeda Mesmer: There is much of SL that I'm not familiar with.
[13:53] Aphilo Aarde: i.e. there's not a one-to-one scaled down correspondence
[13:53] Andromeda Mesmer: I miss the old San Francisco that was in SL when I was new --
[13:53] sandhya2 Patel is Offline
[13:53] Andromeda Mesmer: well -- not "old" -- current San Francisco -- it actually had visitors from all around the world, like the RL San Francisco.
[13:53] Ju Roussel is Offline
[13:53] Aphilo Aarde: of RL to SL
[13:53] Andromeda Mesmer: Then - one day -- POOF - gone.
[13:54] Aphilo Aarde: I didn't see SF in SL
[13:54] Andromeda Mesmer: I was surprised - am surprised -- the the Lindens have no interest in recreating their city.
[13:54] Breeze Underwood is Online
[13:55] Buffy Beale is Offline
[13:55] Aphilo Aarde: I don't really like commercialism in SL or advertising ... Sea Turtle Island is another sim I like - and it's a kind of cooperative/collective with an education focus - Cedar Island I think it's called
[13:55] Andromeda Mesmer: SF had 2 streetcar lines, a bit of hill, Golden Gate Bridge, some tall sky scrapers, and many clubs and stores. Lag was pretty bad
[13:55] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[13:56] Sybex Drachnyd is Offline
[13:56] Andromeda Mesmer: Well -- unfortunately for you -- I suspect that SL is being more commercialized -- the accountant tpes are coming into the company.
[13:56] Dallas Trefoil is Offline
[13:56] Andromeda Mesmer: That may not be good long term.
[13:57] Dallas Trefoil is Online
[13:57] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, but fortunately, there are infinite sims, and you can't see them all ... so I imagine lists of related sims have already begun to emerge :)
[13:57] Aphilo Aarde: infinite! it's incredible
[13:57] Andromeda Mesmer: Customer care -- for the well-paying customers -- is not really great.
[13:58] Aphilo Aarde: LL historical trajectory - haven't entered that realm yet
[13:58] Andromeda Mesmer: What do you mean by "LL historical trajectory"?
[13:59] Dallas Trefoil is Offline
[14:00] Andromeda Mesmer: There is a SL artist -- incredible skill at making sculpties -- like waving fields of oats -- who says that LL have made some bad mistakes in the way things are rendered. Certainly, serious flaws in the avatar shape which drives artists bananas.
[14:00] Aphilo Aarde: I have heard poor things about LL customer service over the years, and nothing seems to have changed ... I see this as part of its culture, and, of course, it could change ... but someone from within Linden would have to initiate this ... they're a kind of tightly networked group
[14:00] Arawn Spitteler is Offline
[14:00] Andromeda Mesmer: Actually insightful there -- I didn't think about "part of culture."
[14:00] Andromeda Mesmer: Hmmm --
[14:01] Andromeda Mesmer: Then the customers have to look for their own solutions to problems --
[14:01] Aphilo Aarde: Either Kingdon the current head has to change it, or some other Linden
[14:01] Michele Mrigesh is Offline
[14:01] Andromeda Mesmer: There have been problems with theft, illegitimate copying, and griefer attacks.
[14:02] Aphilo Aarde: True - it's part of the 'we build it' ethos, which distributedness also informs the Lindens themselves
[14:02] Andromeda Mesmer: One of the texture artists is leaving SL because of lack of help, to do with griefers.
[14:02] Andromeda Mesmer: That's just one example -- I'm not sure, but what she might have been able to do something -- certainly her friends and customers are upset.
[14:02] Aphilo Aarde: long term problems ... as an individual you have to strategize around them
[14:03] Dallas Trefoil is Online
[14:03] Tara Yeats is Offline
[14:03] Aphilo Aarde: Well, I'm going to take off ... it's nice to chat and visit ... I like your penguin shirt
[14:03] Andromeda Mesmer: Would you like a copy? It's for fans of Linux -
[14:04] Aphilo Aarde: Yes ... please ... I also have
[14:04] Aphilo Aarde: a friend who's very penguin oriented and I'll pass it to her
[14:05] Andromeda Mesmer: Wonderful!
[14:05] Aphilo Aarde: as well, if I can
[14:05] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[14:05] Andromeda Mesmer gave you Penguin Shirt.
[14:05] Aphilo Aarde: Thank you ! :)
[14:06] Andromeda Mesmer: I've also got a shirt with the caffeine molecule on it --
[14:06] Andromeda Mesmer: and many others too -
[14:06] Aphilo Aarde: That would be sweet - are they multi-sized :)
[14:06] Andromeda Mesmer: LO - yes, they are --
[14:06] Aphilo Aarde: ;)
[14:07] Andromeda Mesmer gave you T-shirt - gray - Caffeine molecule.
[14:07] Aphilo Aarde: Thank you, again ...
[14:07] Andromeda Mesmer: That point about "multisize" -- that's actually a problem for the SL designers.
[14:07] Froukje Hoorenbeek is Online
[14:07] Andromeda Mesmer: They get very picky about how the mesh works in SL -- and they don't like it at all.
[14:08] Aphilo Aarde: I can imagine that makes for interesting programming challenges, as do a whole set of scaling questions vis-a-vis SL.
[14:08] Andromeda Mesmer: One of them said -- full of elementary mistakes, like what she would have made, if she was just starting out.
[14:08] Andromeda Mesmer: Oh -- final thing to say -- forgot --
[14:08] Aphilo Aarde: :)
[14:09] Andromeda Mesmer: A synthetic world called There.com went under -
[14:09] Andromeda Mesmer: Some of its residents have come into SL - others have gone to IMVU and elsewhere --
[14:09] Aphilo Aarde: Oh, no ... might be an interesting possibility for World University & School - is it interoperable with SL, do you know?
[14:09] Andromeda Mesmer: They miss the demise of their community.
[14:10] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, that's a sad occurrence ... yet, better, in some senses than loss of homeland, which has occurred in RL again and again ... over the centuries ... Ah, modernity ...
[14:10] Andromeda Mesmer: I'm not sure how There.com worked -- only found out from an island owner here -- she was going to auction off some items she made - but that was not possible.
[14:11] Andromeda Mesmer: Losses of all kinds continue -- there are even cemeteries in SL, memorials of different kinds too.
[14:11] Aphilo Aarde: I never visited it, but virtual worlds need a scale of community that isn't all that easy to build, because of limited eyeball stickitiivity
[14:12] Kazuhiro Aridian is Online
[14:12] Andromeda Mesmer: Many of the communities that I have seen seem to center around one or two individuals. New Citizens is a group endeavour --
[14:13] Andromeda Mesmer: My bird's eye view anyway -- focused more on the artists running stores.
[14:13] Andromeda Mesmer: But -- even here at Harvard -- started with one professor --
[14:13] Aphilo Aarde: I think art is a most remarkable set of representations to come out of Second Life
[14:14] Andromeda Mesmer: The Lindens had no idea of how far that would go --
[14:14] Luna Bliss is Online
[14:14] Aphilo Aarde: And Second Lifers can appreciate this more ... getting into Second Life takes a little added effort which limits the number of visitors, and makes the appreciation of such art all the more great.
[14:14] Aphilo Aarde: Nice to visit, A, and look forward to chatting with you further :)
[14:15] Aphilo Aarde: I'm taking off now ... see you soon :)














(http://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2010/03/fall-oaks-in-yosemite-transcript-from.html - March 27, 2010)