Friday, March 31, 2023

Pygmy fruit-eating bat: FlyWire Connectome Town Hall Thursday, 3/30/23 * #DrosophilaConsciousness (Drosophila fly consciousness) ?

 

FlyWire Connectome Town Hall Thursday, 3/30/23 * #DrosophilaConsciousness (Drosophila fly consciousness) ? 


Dear Phil (at UC Berkeley), Sven (at Princeton), Philipp (at Cambridge), Amy (at Flywire Connectome), Prof Mala Murthy (at Princeton too), Prof of Consciousness David Chalmers (at NYU), All,  


Greetings, and thanks so much for your great Flywire Connectome Town Hall yesterday. I'm writing to follow up both the questions I asked, a few sets of related Tweets, and further inquiry into how to explore further Drosophila Connectome Consciousness - with David Chalmers' thinking too (https://twitter.com/davidchalmers42). In a related vein, how to build out a realistic virtual earth for Drosophila fly STEAM research, at the molecular level, the cellular level and the street view level (and think Google Street View with Time Slider, Maps, Earth, TensorFlowAI TensorStore, and even Pegman as an avatar boo become a Drosophila fly Google avatar ... and in conversation with my and MIT OCW-centric World Univ & Sch seeking to develop a Realistic Virtual Harbin Hot Springs, for further iterating wiki ethnographic research - http://www.scottmacleod.com/ActualVirtualHarbinBook.html ).

1
correct spelling of Phil Shiu's name in set of Tweets -

Thnx #PhilShiuUCBerkeleyNeuroscience #SvenDorkenwald @sdorkenw #ProfMalaMurthy Philipp Schlegel @uni_matrix @amyneurons for #FlyWireConnectome #FlywireTownHall 3/30/23 presentations "Molecule: #Stanford & #GooglesTomDean: https://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2017/03/molecule-stanford-googles-tom-dean.html #DrosophilaConsciousness ?

https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch/status/1641848041807151132?s=20

https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1641848333768458249?s=20

https://twitter.com/TheOpenBand/status/1641849472912064519?s=20

https://twitter.com/sgkmacleod/status/1641849740718374915

https://twitter.com/HarbinBook/status/1641850166633168917

https://twitter.com/WUaSPress/status/1641849949334765568

(correct spelling of Phil Shiu's last name in this set of Tweets)


retweeting -

Murthy Lab
@MurthyLab
SLEAP paper now out at
@naturemethods
  http://nature.com/articles/s41592-022-01426-1 - lots of updates since our Sept 2020 preprint! Congrats to
@talmop
 and all co-authors and huge THANK YOU to our http://SLEAP.ai user community for getting us here - stay tuned for more developments this year!




2

How best Prof @davidchalmers42 could #Flywire & #PhilShiuUCBerkeleyNeuroscience @sdorkenw #ProfMalaMurthy @uni_matrix @amyneurons further
study #DrosophilaConsciousness in #FlyWireConnectome w #RealisticVirtualEarth? As #IntegratedInformation #IIT iterating #VirtualDrosophila?

https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch/status/1641825671826530306

https://twitter.com/sgkmacleod/status/1641826335956910080

https://twitter.com/HarbinBook/status/1641827076800954368

https://twitter.com/WUaSPress/status/1641845239458430981?s=20

https://twitter.com/TheOpenBand/status/1641846337963425804

https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1641846692201783296



retweeting -


FlyWire
@FlyWireNews
The fly central brain synthesizes sensory stimuli into decisions and actions. For the first time, ALL 46,944 branched and far-reaching neurons of both hemispheres of the central brain have been reconstructed and are available via FlyWire. https://join.flywire.ai

https://twitter.com/FlyWireNews/status/1585728833935638528?s=20




3
Since studying #consciousness as #SubjectiveExperience regarding #LargeLanguageModels, & in human's brains, wouldn't be possible with #DrosophilaConsciousness, how best to code #AIsystems to generate #InteractiveVirtualWorlds to iterate as #Drosophila #IntegratedInformation #IIT?


https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1641811136910598144?s=20

https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch/status/1641814195187470340

https://twitter.com/TheOpenBand/status/1641814460615499777

https://twitter.com/HarbinBook/status/1641814703759405056

https://twitter.com/WUaSPress/status/1641814992100966402

https://twitter.com/sgkmacleod/status/1641815238914850816



replying to -

David Chalmers
@davidchalmers42
what is the state of the art in using AI systems (including but not limited to language/multimodal models) to generate interactive virtual worlds?



Scott_GK_MacLeod_WUaS_worlduniversityandschool.org
@scottmacleod
Replying to
@davidchalmers42
Since studying #consciousness as #SubjectiveExperience regarding #LargeLanguageModels, & in human's brains, wouldn't be possible with #DrosophilaConsciousness, how best to code #AIsystems to generate #InteractiveVirtualWorlds to iterate as #Drosophila #IntegratedInformation #IIT?

https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1641811575165026306?s=20




My questions in registering -

Coming into conversation with the paper, how could the Flywire connectome and citizen scientists' mapping of fly brains at the cellular and molecular levels be extended into, and made interoperable with, Google Street View with time slider, Maps, Earth, TensorFlowAI in 1 Realistic Virtual Earth for species and evolutionary biology and brain science and for human avatar bot electronic medical records and aging reversal genetics too, and see, for ex.:
AAAB
https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch/status/1558504233388883968 and
BBBC
https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1631651303964147712.


How might we - Princeton Neuroscience Institute and OCW.MIT.EDU -centric wiki World University and School - explore new ways of publishing (crowdsourced too) fly connectome research in and from a #RealisticVirtualEarth in 3D (think Google Street View with time slider, TensorStore, Google AI etc), #TextInTheSideBar (eg
CCCD
https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch/status/1549819221235732480 AND
DDDE
https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1578367117933838337, so, new NDimensional digital publishing, but also to paper from a 3D #RealisticVirtualEarthFor ForBrains and ForDrosophila and ForSpecies' Brains?



How we as end users could play with how these neuron cells all work together in different ways, and even phenotypically when appropriate -  Tags incl:
Nerves
Motor
Endocrine
Ascending & Descending
Sensory (olfactory, mechanosensory, gustatory, hygrosensory, thermosensory)
Visual Projection & Centrifugal
Optic
EEEF
(https://twitter.com/FlyWireNews/status/1628799360560496640).



Thank you!



AND questions in the Flywire Town Hall - 

Is this Stanford connectome talk by Tom Dean (and regarding the Google IT ecosystem a precursor of this Flywire connectome talk, and almost to the day?)
Saturday, April 1, 2017

Molecule: Stanford & Google's Tom Dean: "Automatically Inferring Meso-scale Models of Neural Computation", Google Brain?, Approaches to Consciousness from this?

https://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2017/03/molecule-stanford-googles-tom-dean.html

Will we learn of approaches to studying Drosophila consciousness (as 'subjective experience') today by any chance?



Appreciating your ‘Nice!’ comment, Amy, as marking a beginning 3D slide with some movement of neuroscience in Philipp’s presentation, compared with all the other more static figures, diagrams, and representations.

How best to move to publishing completely in 3D with movement and over time, even on a new digital ‘book’ platform? How, Philipp (Sven, Phil, all) do you see the emergence of 3D presentations and publishing, in the open citizen science Flywire connectome project?



Thanks so much, All! 

Seeking to create a new hardware device at World Univ & Sch for digital publishing - and regarding creating a #RealisticVirtualHarbin for ethnographic research in Google Street View and at the cell and molecule levels.


FURTHER:

Sven Dorkenwald, (and David Chalmers), how could we go from your information flow slide, and figure or diagram ... to iterate further in Flywire to Drosophila consciousness, in a conversation between the digital (Flywire Connectome) and the physical - and regarding Tonino's Integrated Information Theory potentially in Flywire? Could such find form in emerging great 3D modeling, such as in your slide, Philipp Schlegel that Amy Sterling may have marked with her "Nice" comment in the text chat in the side bar?


David Chalmers, what is possibly consciousness as experience for a drosophila, in a similar also alien way to the questions Tom Nagel at NYU too raised in his seminal 1974 paper "What is it like to be a bat?"


Lastly, if in the Flywire Connectome project, a cryptocurrency could come to play a role, beyond say libraries buying scientific papers, how could you, brainstorming-wise, begin to envision Stanford Mine Pi cryptocurrency playing a role in the  Flywire Connectome in the future, and as MIT OCW-CENTRIC wiki World Univ & Sch seeks to code for all 7.9 billion people on the planet, each a wikidata PIN # and to distribute this as a main worldwide cryptocurrency in all 200 countries and for speakers of all 7151 known living languages, and potentially also to end poverty via UBI experiments to most of all 7.9 billion people, so all kinds of citizen scientists could begin to get things with Stanford Mine Pi in a brand new scientific economy too?

I am sending you 1π! Pi is a new digital currency developed by Stanford PhDs, with over 35 million members worldwide. To claim your Pi, follow this link https://minepi.com/sgkmac and use my username (sgkmac) as your invitation code.



Looking forward to a further developing Flywire Connectome conversation, and regarding World Univ & Sch seeking to create a realistic virtual earth even for about 10 laboratory species (Humans, dogs, mice, chickens, honey bees, Drosophila fly, ) including with Physical-Digital Avatar Bot Electronic Medical Records - possibly for other species too - and even for aging reversal genetic drug therapies emerging, and an iterating physical-digital wiki conversation (such as I think the Flywire Connectome project is creating).



Thanks, Scott




related resources 


PS

on Tononi and Integrated Information Theory 

see too -

Consciousness as Integrated Information: a Provisional Manifesto

Giulio Tononi
Department of Psychiatry, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin
Received 20 August 2008; accepted 10 October 2008.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.2307/25470707



PPS
And about Tom Dean of the original I think Connectome / Google Brain project - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dean_(computer_scientist)



PPPS
some mention of species and conditions of consciousness -

A conversation with Professor David Chalmers, May 20, 2016

https://www.openphilanthropy.org/sites/default/files/David_Chalmers_05-20-16_%28public%29.pdf



PPPPS
What Is It Like to Be a Bat?
Author(s): Thomas Nagel
Source: The Philosophical Review, Vol. 83, No. 4 (Oct., 1974), pp. 435-450 Published by: Duke University Press on behalf of Philosophical Review Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2183914 .

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/study/ugmodules/humananimalstudies/lectures/32/nagel_bat.pdf


how far down the phylogenetic tree? Tom Nagel

". I have chosen bats instead of wasps or flounders because if one travels too far down the phylogenetic tree,people gradually shed their faith that there is experience there at all" p 438





PPPPS


incorrect spelling of Phil Shui's name in set of Tweets - 

Thnx #PhilSchiuUCBerkeleyNeuroscience #SvenDorkenwald @sdorkenw #ProfMalaMurthy Philipp Schlegel @uni_matrix @amyneurons for the #FlyWireConnectome #FlywireTownHall 3/30/23 presentations "Molecule: #Stanford & #GooglesTomDean: https://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2017/03/molecule-stanford-googles-tom-dean.html #DrosophilaConsciousness ?

https://twitter.com/sgkmacleod/status/1641479872601108481?s=20

https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch/status/1641480910112534539

https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1641481669050875905

https://twitter.com/WUaSPress/status/1641482538773360652

https://twitter.com/HarbinBook/status/1641482852033343505

https://twitter.com/TheOpenBand/status/1641483235715690503

retweeting -

Murthy Lab
@MurthyLab
SLEAP paper now out at
@naturemethods
  http://nature.com/articles/s41592-022-01426-1 - lots of updates since our Sept 2020 preprint! Congrats to
@talmop
 and all co-authors and huge THANK YOU to our http://SLEAP.ai user community for getting us here - stay tuned for more developments this year!






On Mon, Mar 27, 2023, 6:23 PM <flywire@eyewire.org> wrote:

Hi FlyWire Community,

You are cordially invited to the next FlyWire Town Hall this Thursday, March 30th at 11 am US ET.

The event will begin with remarks from Mala Murthy and Sebastian Seung. Sven Dorkenwald will next debut figures from the upcoming connectome manuscript. Philipp Schlegel will present a multi-year annotation and analysis of FlyWire. Finally, Philip Shiu will share his team's fly brain simulation. We'll wrap things up with discussion and the answer to the droso trivia question posted in FlyWire Slack.

RSVP for Zoom link and to receive a reminder before the event starts: FlyWire Town Hall Spring 2023

Thank you for being a part of the FlyWire community!

Amy Sterling and FlyWire HQ





* * 


FlyWire Town Hall - 

Event:
  • Introduction by Mala Murthy, FlyWire Founder and Director of Princeton Neuroscience Institute
  • Presentations by Sven Dorkenwald (Princeton University) and Philipp Schlegel (Cambridge University)
  • Discussion, Q&A
  • Answer to the upcoming super fly trivia question :)


flywire@eyewire.org via amazonses.com 

Mon, Mar 27, 6:23 PM (2 days ago)
to me

Hi FlyWire Community,

You are cordially invited to the next FlyWire Town Hall this Thursday, March 30th at 11 am US ET.

The event will begin with remarks from Mala Murthy and Sebastian Seung. Sven Dorkenwald will next debut figures from the upcoming connectome manuscript. Philipp Schlegel will present a multi-year annotation and analysis of FlyWire. Finally, Philip Shiu will share his team's fly brain simulation. We'll wrap things up with discussion and the answer to the droso trivia question posted in FlyWire Slack.

RSVP for Zoom link and to receive a reminder before the event starts: FlyWire Town Hall Spring 2023

Thank you for being a part of the FlyWire community!

Amy Sterling and FlyWire HQ





* 

My questions in registering - 

Coming into conversation with the paper, how could the Flywire connectome and citizen scientists' mapping of fly brains at the cellular and molecular levels be extended into, and made interoperable with, Google Street View with time slider, Maps, Earth, TensorFlowAI in 1 Realistic Virtual Earth for species and evolutionary biology and brain science and for human avatar bot electronic medical records and aging reversal genetics too, and see, for ex.:


How might we - Princeton Neuroscience Institute and OCW.MIT.EDU -centric wiki World University and School - explore new ways of publishing (crowdsourced too) fly connectome research in and from a #RealisticVirtualEarth in 3D (think Google Street View with time slider, TensorStore, Google AI etc), #TextInTheSideBar (eg 
https://twitter.com/scottmacleod/status/1578367117933838337, so, new NDimensional digital publishing, but also to paper from a 3D #RealisticVirtualEarthFor ForBrains and ForDrosophila and ForSpecies' Brains? 



How we as end users could play with how these neuron cells all work together in different ways, and even phenotypically when appropriate -  Tags incl:
Nerves
Motor
Endocrine
Ascending & Descending
Sensory (olfactory, mechanosensory, gustatory, hygrosensory, thermosensory)
Visual Projection & Centrifugal
Optic 



Thank you!




* 

More about Flywire - https://flywire.ai

Buildings

Overview

Since 2019, scientists and experienced proofreaders have utilized FlyWire to proofread AI segmentation of a full fly brain (Dorkenwald et al., Zheng et al.). As of October, 2022, over 80,000 neurons have been proofread in FlyWire, including the entire central brain.

Automatically extracted presynaptic and postsynaptic tags have been applied to all putative connections in the brain (Buhmann et al.), and the dominant neurotransmitter assigned for most neurons (Eckstein et al.).

Explore networks using neuron IDs in the FlyWire Codex (FlyWire signup required). Further analysis tools are forthcoming. For programmatic analysis, see natverse (R) and CAVE (Python).

Drosophila Melanogaster, connectome

FlyWire Consortium

Community of neurobiologists, computer scientists, and proofreaders who build and curate the first whole brain connectome for Drosophila in FlyWire. Join FlyWire and contribute community data for your lab to appear.

Members adhere to a set of shared principles to join the community: FlyWire Data and Principles.

 Meet the Consortium










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Does #FlywireConnectome offer BREAKTHROUGH #PhysicalDigital #CitizenScience poss. to study #PhilOfMind #consciousness #DrosophilaConsciousness? 

Does #FlywireConnectome offer BREAKTHROUGH #PhysicalDigital #CitizenScience poss. to study #PhilOfMind #consciousness #DrosophilaConsciousness >http://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2023/03/pygmy-fruit-eating-bat.html?m=0? 'a being is #conscious...if there is “something that it is like” to be that creature'







Retweeting


what is the state of the art in using AI systems (including but not limited to language/multimodal models) to generate interactive virtual worlds? 



REPLYING in the chat to above - 

Does #FlywireConnectome offer BREAKTHROUGH #PhysicalDigital #CitizenScience poss. to study #PhilOfMind #consciousness #DrosophilaConsciousness >http://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2023/03/pygmy-fruit-eating-bat.html?m=0? 'a being is #conscious...if there is “something that it is like” to be that creature'




#
Does the Flywire Connectome offer breakthrough PhysicalDigital Citizen Science possibilities for studying Phil of Mind consciousness Drosophila Consciousness  
S
According to Nagel, a being is conscious just if there is “something that it is like” to be that creature, i.e., some subjective way the world seems or appears from the creature's mental or experiential point of view.Jun 18, 2004

. . . 










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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_fruit-eating_bat





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermanura

https://eol.org/pages/327361


...


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