Jeanne, JonathanS, Barbara, Anita, Diggitt, JohnM, and JohnH, & Non-theist Friends,
Appreciating the very varied Non-theist Friends' logics we're all sharing in writing (where logic isn't religion's strong suit, some including Dawkins' would argue).
I do too, JeanneW and JonathanS ...
Re this NtF email list, I have some UU background too Diggitt ... Appreciating in these regards these 7 principles - https://www.uua.org/beliefs/
“The Principles are not dogma or doctrine, but rather a guide for those of us who choose to join and participate in Unitarian Universalist religious communities.”
- 1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
- 2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
- 3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
- 4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
- 5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
- 6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
- 7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Thanks so much too, Barbara re:
"Glad Friends, now NtF, have historically/culturally and practice-wise focused on direct experience (with it be silent meeting, or in the activism of caring for the poor at midnight in NYC) re
“Appreciating the experiential & PRACTICE aspects of non-theistically Friendly explorations & creations.”
This is exactly why I joined the Nontheist Friends group. I find practical/day-to-day living as a Friend discussions extremely helpful.
Diggitt wrote:
“Perhaps it's my UU upbringing, but I have never felt a need, or a call, to explain my messages to Christians or theists.”
It is definitely your UU upbringing. My JW upbringing was the exact opposite – it was all about being required to explain (justify/defend/you get the idea), well, everything – every word that came out of my mouth, everything I did, everything I thought."
What I find potentially salutary about Quakerly (and NtF as well) community (conversation / discourse too) in its ethical ways is its friendliness (where religion to say the least hasn't always been very friendly:). Community too is something that Quakers have focused on creating in Friends' own peculiar ways through centuries (e.g. the Peaceable Kingdom idea) ... and this unfolds as I see it in new ways with NtFs on the internet and at FGC too ...
What I wonder about further with regard to NtF translating religion into non-theism is the role of identity in religion, in many many ways. This can include the very positive identity of Friends doing the right thing - ie conscientious objection-wise in war tax resistance, for example, and re a myriad of approaches to doing the right thing via activism (walking the talk some have called this too) - and in creating, living and shaping positive change. But religious identity and thus religion has down-sides to my way of thinking, which both Dawkins explains in the concerns he writes about, but also re what psychologists / psychiatrists, might and have called narcissism, for example, as another expression of identity. (I'm an anthropologist, sociologist and social scientist in these regards). Yet I affirm too that NtFs' identity by developing this multi-faceted reasoning conversation via writing and thus becoming aware of (learning about) a wide variety of aspects of 'religion' in new ways, and thus potentially translating them into non-theism with a kind of reasoning consciousness (which I find sensible and beneficial). The power of identity as religion (re social theory, anthropology-wise & sociology too - as in Manuel Castells' book "The Power of Identity," which is the middle book in his "Information Age" trilogy, now in its 2nd edition - where Castells' successfully has 'theorized' the information technology revolution (some would suggest), comparably with both of the great sociologists' Weber and Marx's works - with a focus on social change and justice via the internet) ... often seems to be overlooked by the non-theist friends such as Richard Dawkins, for example, in his critiques of religion in a debating-reasoning informed way. Identity, and religious identity are mixed-bags both historically and re religion, and reasoned conversation is one way through this mixed-up-ness.
Quakers < > NtFs differentially raise interesting identity questions for me too ... and yet still seem to get mingled up together with regard to religion as identity questions in this group writing discernment process ... And yet perhaps we can make some further headway in focusing on 'translating religion into non-theism' re A) un-programmed Quakers as identity (per Diggitt's observation that historically Quakers in their independent religious thinking have defended a kind of implicit non-theism), and B) re (un-programmed) Non-theist Friends / NtFs as an identity ... while affirming the many positive aspects of what these (religious?) identities give rise to, in terms of community, and re discernment conversations about aspects of life we deem of some vital significance in each of our ways.
But I come back too - re all of this NtF reasoning - to explorations of positive eliciting of loving bliss neurophysiology, which I think can emerge from writing as well as NtF conversation ... and all re 'translating religion into non-theism' and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
NtF cheers, Scott
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As a bit more mumbo jumbo (confusing or meaningless language), linguistically that is, - and re the emergent UU conversation in this thread about "[NTF-talk] Translating Religion Into Nontheistic Beliefs," emerging from a culture or identity or religion, am very appreciative of some UU groups, and individuals too, foci on singing and music-making, and support of music-making, as an expression of a kind of this envisioning vision even. Interesting to me to see what comes out of the soup of religion-into-non-theism time (since sermons might have had a much bigger role historically among Unitarians than among Friends, non-theistic ones or un-programmed Quaker ones).
NtF warm regards, Scott
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Here are related recent parts of this Non-theist and friendly, Quaker too, "[NTF-talk] Translating Religion Into Nontheistic Beliefs" conversation ...
Aconitum (blue rocket): Sending Love ... Re sending love and - 'In ongoing learning about eliciting loving bliss neurophysiology' - am also exploring in new ways ... * * * Scottish Small Piping learning developments, 'HONEY IN THE BAG' first Scottish small pipes' album in 2020 - a "compilation of mp3s' " idea in the internet age * * * Non-theist Friends' / Atheist Quakers' thinking (interesting!), Diggitt McLaughlin - "practice will help you be more certain of who you have become" * * * In ongoing learning about eliciting loving bliss neurophysiology (see Grateful Dead above too), I've recently found the Boston Baroque live stream channel - http://www.bostonbaroque.org/boston-baroque-radio - and am observing subtle loving bliss neural cascades of pleasure while listening to this very varied music ... So, how and in what ways might it be possible to send love through making music, for example? :)
- https://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2019/08/aconitum-blue-rocket-sending-love.html -Wild garlic (Allium ursinum): "Loving bliss and practices to elicit this" http://scottmacleod.com/LovingBlissPractices.htm ... where I head with "translating religion Into nontheistic beliefs" and "what value religion has for us nontheists" among Nontheist Friends / Atheist Quakers
- https://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2019/08/wild-garlic-allium-ursinum-loving-bliss.html -
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Hi Ma,
Appreciating your 'sending love' return phone call last night too.
My aural landscape is Changing as well with the Boston Baroque station ... lots of new and very varied lovely inputs I find myself 'riffing with' somehow as I listen. Nice way to listen to Baroque music with lots of great Mozart thrown in for great measure (where a Quora web page describes Mozart as a 'retrograde' Baroque composer (Mozart defines the classical period in music (1775-1825), n'est-ce pas?:) ... am appreciating all the coloratura in Mozart in these regards nevertheless ... much little blissing interestingly .... yay Boston Baroque .... lots to think aboutvin this regards ...
Is this Christian music? I searched in Google just now ... itvoffered the familiar "combination of sacred and secular music" in explaining Baroque music ~1600-1750.
More listening ahead here - http://www.bostonbaroque.org/boston-baroque-radio ...
Is this station old hat for you, Ma?
Sending love, Scott
--
- Scott MacLeod
- http://scottmacleod.com
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can't seem to find "Angel orchid (Zygopetalum rhein)" mentioned here in Wikipedia / Wiki commons
All of are interesting orchids!
...
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